"You can get past the dead end. You can break through the ceiling. I did and so have countless others."
Today we’ll be talking to Taylor APRN and Shane FNP co-owners of a DPC practice with two locations where they offer primary care services and additional HRT, peptides, weight loss, and red light therapy. Their practice is doing well business-wise but they need assistance with growing it further by providing services to a variety of different patients as well as marketing tips for their business.
In our conversation we talked about how DPC can be very profitable if there’s a need for it in your area, Shane and Taylor developed a system that works for them and they invested their earnings back into the business, marketing it and bringing in extra help to grow it. At first, you might not get a lot of profit in your business with this strategy, but you’ll be sowing the seeds for a self-sustained always growing practice that can become extremely successful.
00:00:00 Speaker: Greetings. This is Justin Allen with the elite nurse practitioner. Welcome to the Elite Nurse Practitioner Show podcast dedicated to nurse practitioner entrepreneurism and achieving financial freedom, where I talk directly with nurse practitioners who need help. Listen up. Our market is saturated. Jobs can be scarce. We are underpaid. We are undervalued. We are taken advantage of by the sharks within the healthcare system. And frankly, screw that. Sick of it and it’s time for a change. And listen, I’m here to help make that happen. We are powerful. We can forge a path where we are in control of our career and ultimately, our financial and personal well-being. You do not need to submit to healthcare administrators and your doctor overlords. You do not have to take a measly salary. You do not have to work fifty to sixty hours a week. There is a different way, and I’m here to show you that path. This podcast is raw and unfiltered. I have not talked with nurse practitioners in this podcast prior to the call, outside of an email exchange to schedule the episode. What you’re about to listen to is a consultation session between a nurse practitioner and myself. It is real. It is unscripted. It is unplanned, and I have no idea what we’re going to talk about. Anything and everything can happen during our conversation. The nurse practitioners in these episodes are struggling with an issue in their professional or financial life, and they have reached out to me for help. My goal is to help the nurse practitioner with actionable advice that will enhance and improve their professional business and financial life. My other goal is to hopefully help my nurse practitioner, sisters and brothers build a more productive, powerful, and free life. So I hope the content and information within these podcast episodes does just that. All right, on to the episode. Hello everyone. Today we’ll be talking to Taylor and Shane, who are both nurse practitioners that co-own a DPC practice that has two locations. They offer direct primary care services in addition to hormone replacement therapy, peptides, weight loss, and red light therapy. Business overall is going well for their practice, but they are needing assistance with growing their practice further through providing services to a variety of different patients. Business to business, marketing and marketing in general. Hey, Taylor and Shane. How are you guys? Hey. Well doing awesome. Thank you so much for having us on your podcast today. For sure, for sure. Yeah, yeah. For sure. So anyways, let’s go ahead and get started. So we’ll start with Taylor first. So Taylor, tell us a little bit about yourself, how long you’ve been a practitioner for and what sorts of things you’ve been doing. Yeah, absolutely. So my name is Taylor and Drew. I’m a nurse practitioner. I’ve been in the medical practice since I was seventeen years old. So I’m thirty nine now. So I’ve been in it in all aspects of healthcare. I’ve been a nurse practitioner since twenty eleven. I went to Vanderbilt University, have a great education and a really great grasp on healthcare, not only health care, but the needs that we have for the community that we are not seeing met. Okay, Shane, how about you? Yes. Hey, uh, I’ve been in the healthcare since about twenty fourteen. Um, I started out as a transplant RN over at Mayo Clinic doing, uh, CV transplant. Then I became an MP. This is my go to my fifth year. Um, and I’m an MP and, uh, very much love, love entrepreneurship and very happy to be part of it. And, you know, it’s, it really helped my burnout, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Oh for sure. Uh, there’s no question. There’s no question that starting your own business will help with the burnout. Yeah. Uh, I honestly, I think that, uh, if I wouldn’t have started my own business or whatever, I probably would have just. I probably would’ve stopped being a nurse practitioner. Just did something same. Oh, I talk about this all the time. I’m like, had it not been for opening my practice, I would have been burnt out and done and probably would’ve done something totally, totally different, honestly. Yeah. Yeah. Shout out for so much. You gotta shout out for Shane. He actually just had a post about, um, preventing provider burnout and opening, um, his own practice. And so that’s absolutely true for a majority of us nurse practitioners, and figuring out a way to stay in the system in a world that we love, and also being able to make sure we take care of ourselves in the process. Yeah, yeah. For sure. Uh, I mean, I know lots of nurse practitioners who’ve become financial planners and real estate agents and stuff. Like they just, they just get out, you know? Yeah. Um, that’s don’t don’t look good, right? I mean, sixty percent of nurses leave within about two years, right? And then it just gets worse. But what I want to say is like, you don’t have to leave what you love, really. Our role is to help empower each other and patients. And we have a lot of autonomy and we don’t feel that way often because our current healthcare system isn’t built for us. You know, it’s it’s not. No, no, no, it’s built for doctor supervision and stuff. Yeah. And, uh, lining the pockets of healthcare administrators. Really? That’s right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyway, so let’s, uh, so let’s talk about this business you guys started. So, um, so Taylor, tell me about this. So you guys started a DPC practice and you guys have two locations. So I guess I’m kind of confused. How did that, you know, how did that start? Like, how did you guys open two locations up? Like how was the relationship here? Like, how did you guys get started? Yeah, that’s such a good question. So, um, I am graced with a ton of help and support in my community here in Tallahassee. I’m a Tallahassee native, and I was a hospitalist during Covid and decided to open my own practice branch out. And I had a huge amount of success in, in starting the practice out. And Shane and I actually met on social media like I did with you. And so Shane had his own practice, which was separate from Aquarian Clinic. And I, we were working night shifts, crazy hours, and we would text each other in the middle of the night, hey, how’s it going? How can we help each other? And after about a couple of years, Um, actually about a year and a half, I reached out to Shane and I said, hey, is there any way that we can actually join forces? Because there’s no reason for us not to? And Shane said, yes, absolutely. So we’ve been able to offer administrative help on my end from my business partner, as well as our CXO, our Chief Experience officer, to really be able to grow both the practices at the same time, which has been extremely exciting because we don’t only have one location, we have two, and we’d love to expand to more, especially given the stressors after having about two hundred patients, is what I’ve found. With direct primary care, you need a little more help than just being on your own. Okay, Shane, any follow up to that? No, I totally understand that. And I fully agree. And, um, I was doing weight loss and obesity medicine here, here in Jacksonville. And like she said, you know, she had the DPC model really nailed down. And I, I had the weight loss model nailed down and we just kind of joined forces and resources and work together. And, you know, that’s, that’s really what it should be. It’s a, it’s a, it’s a, it’s really like a team effort. Uh, you know, and we shouldn’t, you know, we should really empower each other. It’s kind of what, what we’re saying here. Absolutely. One hundred percent. Yeah. Okay. Cool. So the business structure itself, are you guys like, is it like a fifty fifty partnership kind of a thing? Like how is this structured? Oh, that’s a good question. So initially it started with my business partner. It started with me. I started concierge medicine. Um, as we mentioned before, I’m an adult nurse practitioner and a geriatric nurse practitioner. And so I started doing concierge medicine and I was charging three hundred and fifty dollars, four hundred dollars a month. I was trying to figure out my, um, structure. And I actually got together with another direct primary care provider in Tallahassee, who I absolutely adore. And he introduced me to the model. And so my business partner who, funny enough, he opened, he owned the building I was in initially, and I started as a yoga studio and I said, hey, I got to figure out how to pay you rent during Covid. So let me start this concierge practice. And so my business partner came in and said, I see your, your, your, your, the amount of people that you’re seeing. And I want to buy into this model. So my business partner and I were fifty over fifty and we brought Shane in. And so they have an agreement as well. And so Shane is the owner of the Jacksonville Clinic. John Kenny and I are owners of the the bigger umbrella of Aquarium Clinic Incorporated. And so we’re still trying to figure the whole aspect of, of, of all of the sharing and the growing of the clinic. So that’s an incredible question. And we’ll keep figuring it out as we grow. Exactly, exactly. It’s just it just changes in flux. You know, if we open up a new location, then we’ll sit down and talk about ownership there. Um, so it just changes. Yeah. And it’s because we have so much trust in each other and truly our business partner. He is. He’s a he’s a family practice attorney, and he does a lot of our administrative work for us. And we all have so much faith and trust in one another that as we continue to grow, we know that we’re all taken care of because we’re a big family. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Good. Yeah. I mean, when you’re going through a partnership sort of a thing, it’s, uh, I mean, it’s critically important that, uh, that there’s trust involved. Um, that’s probably the number one factor that’s going to, uh, make or break a partnership. So. So I’m glad to hear that you guys have, you know, quite a bit of that going on. So, so that’s a good thing. Um, so okay, so what are you guys needing help with exactly here? Sounds like that the practice is fairly successful. These two locations. Um, so what do you guys need any help with exactly? I know you guys want to scale and grow this thing. So what is your so what’s your vision with this? Yeah, absolutely. Our vision is not just growth financially and patient growth within the practice, but it is also the awareness of direct primary care and alternative options for not only individuals, but businesses as well. And so that way we can truly educate the population on alternative options for healthcare. If you prepare a direct primary care with a Medicare, then you have the ability to save so much money. And so truly, it’s the awareness and the education piece of alternative healthcare, and not in the sense of holistic medicine necessarily, which we do practice, but also cost savings for individuals and for businesses and the concierge level of care, but at affordable price. I would totally agree there as well. And then, uh, maybe a, a, a discussion, uh, about how to scale better. I mean, what have you seen that’s really helped, um, folks scale because our, our dream is to have a, a D, b, C or a, a, a healthcare clinic like ours in each of the major cities like Orlando, Tampa, Miami. So, you know, what have you seen that’s that’s worked really well in that model for, for, for basically just scaling and growing a business in general. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Or even even structure too. Yeah. Um, well, I mean, the first thing is you gotta, you know, you really want to grow a business. You have to start trying to, uh, not be so much in the business. I’m assuming it’s basically you guys are the two providers for the, for the practice, right? Right. Yeah. So, um, take it to the next level. You’re going to have to accept the fact that you’re probably gonna have to hire some other, you know, nurse practitioners or whatever to start seeing some patients for you because you can only see so many, as, you know, just a single, single provider. Um, you just, you just can’t, you can’t do everything. Right. And so you need to start accepting the fact that you’re gonna have to just delegate work to others. And a lot of the important work you’re going to have to delegate to others. So, um, you know, so with that said, how many employees do you guys have? So it’s funny you mentioned that. So we actually have another nurse practitioner here in Tallahassee, and my business partner is a lot better than me at delegating. And as nurses, you know, that that is one of the things we learn in nursing school is how to delegate. And, you know, in nursing school, it’s how to delegate to a medical assistant or another nurse or as a nurse practitioner to another nurse. And so we have hired another nurse practitioner in Tallahassee, and we’re in the process of looking for a qualified nurse practitioner in Jacksonville, because Shane is incredible at getting out there and selling the good word. And I am also that way. And it’s not that we’re selling. We’re truly educating. And so we have to answer your question, as my friend likes to say, long story long, we have multiple employees now, thank God with, um, our, we have a, um, a, what do we call it? Aiden. Shane, our patient. He’s like our executive customer service. I mean, we all have different names, right? But she, she wears a lot of hats worth a lot of hats. Yeah. So we’ve Aiden and we have, um, Sarah, who’s also incredible. She helps us with our supplements. We offer supplements. We have, um, Travis, the other nurse practitioner in Tallahassee, we have John Kenny, who’s our, our co-owner and also does all of our business work for us. All the paperwork we have, um, um, marketing team, which is, consists of Maggie and trailer does our chief, he’s our chief experience officer. And so we truly do have an amazing team around us, which is why we mentioned when we were talking about prior to the start of the podcast is how we’re doing and we were profitable. And then we decided, well, we need to start delegating these tasks so Shane and Taylor can get out there and do the work. And so we’ve hired the most incredible team. And so we are so grateful for the ability to delegate tasks. And so we’ve been able to do that with a little bit of struggle because Shane and I like to do our own thing. And well, if we know how to do it right, then let’s just do it. But we’re learning quickly that we have so much help and that we need to take that help. You know what I mean? Agreed. There. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay. I mean, yeah, you guys sound like you have a very large team here. Um, it’s getting big. It is getting big. Yeah, well, I mean, what kind of what’s like, what’s the revenue looking like for you guys here? Like, I mean, how much are you, you know, have to go over specifics, but like, what kind of like, how profitable are you? I mean, you have a lot of people here. So like, right, you know, red flags going through my mind here. I mean, what, like what, what kind of money are you guys making? Absolutely. So our, our income is currently over six figures a month. And that basically covers we’re pretty much about break even at this point. And again, this goes back to January, which I think we mentioned prior to the conversation of we were profitable then, but it was Shane and Taylor show, and we were working one hundred hour weeks and we were burnt out as like we were seeing ourselves back in the hospital world. And that’s when we realized, hey, why don’t we take a pay cut and why don’t we hire people? And sure, we understand that we’re going to be spending more money, but we also are growing this practice. We have over six hundred patients in two years, and we are continuing to see massive growth. And we’re not burning out. And we’re able to delegate these tasks to others and really create a structure for direct primary cares that will be able to be replicatable throughout the state of Florida, where we are, and also in other places, because we’ve identified how to utilize technology, especially to be able to, uh, better our practice and utilize our, um, help as best as possible. Would you say that’s right. Shane. I think you’re spot on. And I think you’re being very, very humble because we were the fastest growing DPC in twenty twenty two here in the state of Florida. So that’s that’s really something we’re very proud of, honestly. Um, okay. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Good. So then, okay, so in January, you’re making, were you guys a six figure practice in January when it was just you two or what was, what were your numbers looking like then? We were not, we were about half that, right about about half that. And so in the last eight, nine months, ten months. Well this was recorded in October twenty twenty three. So in the last ten months you were able to you were able to double your income. Would that be about accurate? That’s correct. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And so the way you doubled it was through the leverage of the work of others. So you could focus more on the income generating work then I would say yes and no. Yes. Um, because we were able to again hire staff, but they cost us a lot of money. And with the weight loss, which Jane will be able to talk more on this, we had a lot more enrollees. And that’s kind of was what boosted us to be able to fund our our ancillary staff. And so with the weight loss, we really were able to get a jump start on being able to hiring people. But we’ve noticed a decline in our weight loss patients because there’s so many clinics now that are offering weight loss. And so we really don’t want that to be the staple of our practice. We really want the staple of our practice to be direct primary care memberships. And so while Shane and I can are eventually able to step away from the clinic, we’re able to sell more direct primary care memberships, which is then a monthly recurring income for us, if that makes sense. Yeah, no, I mean, that makes sense. So yeah, you know, weight loss is, um, you know, I mean, how stable is it when there’s a lot of competition, right? So I mean, that’s, I think that’s a good business move is maybe trying to get away from being so dependent on that. From a revenue standpoint, I think having all your yeah, you know, having all your eggs in one basket is never a good idea. What percentage of income is from weight loss then? Just estimate it would be twenty percent twenty percent. So then if all weight loss went out the door, you would would you would go from about six figure monthly to a high five figure monthly. That is correct. About right. Yeah. So you guys are still doing pretty damn well with your other services. Like even if weight loss disappeared, you’re still you’re still doing okay. But with that number though, would you be making a profit? No, not at this point. Because what we’ve had to do is again, ramp up our our staff to ensure. And this is what, when I met with consulting practices, which are folks which I’m very connected to the community. Thank God I’ve had a lot of people that I know here, including my dad who’s an entrepreneur. My mom’s a nurse. And so the combined resources I have, you know, I’ve talked to them about, hey, you know, how do we grow? You have to have your systems in place before you grow. So if I were to go to a business and there’s forty nine people in this business, as people know, with ACA compliance, if you have over fifty employees, you have to offer traditional insurance. And with direct primary care in a Medicare combined, if you have less than fifty people, well then you can offer a bigger and better service. But I cannot have offered those services to a company of forty nine people had I not had the staff that I have now. And so now I have the ability to go out with my our other nurse practitioner, Travis, who’s the man in Tallahassee. Now I can go out to these businesses with forty nine employees, twenty employees, ten employees and say, hey, sign up. And I know that those patients are going to have the experience that they have earned and deserved, that I have sold them, if that makes sense. Uh, yeah, that makes sense. But I’m my I’m still stuck on this this income thing. Okay. So how many employees do you have? We have about ten employees. Ten employees. Is that counting you? You two? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So basically eight other people outside of you two. Yes. Okay. And you’re bringing in, you know, one hundred thousand dollars a month, whatever, in revenue. Um, how are you not making a profit? Where’s all the money going? So our money is going to marketing. Our money is going to honestly, the most of our money is going to paying our employees. How much how much are these people making Jesus. I know right, at least. Well, we try to we try to pay our pay our employees well, so we don’t pay anything less than fifteen dollars an hour for any of our employees. And so when we’ve cut back on recently is, um, doing commission for a couple of our employees instead of paying them our salary rather. And so over the last couple of months, we’ve transitioned from salary to commission work, which has actually been really beneficial for us and for them as well, because it incentivizes them. Yeah. Um, I’m, I’m so I have so my mental health practice. We have, uh, five, we have four full time medical assistants. So forty hours a week full time. Then we have one who’s kind of like semi full time, kind of part time or whatever. Um, and just payroll on that alone on a monthly basis is about, um, after you factor in tax obligations and everything was all said and done about fourteen thousand dollars. Um, and then once you pay the nurse practitioners that we have, uh, even if you include, uh, myself, well, let’s not include myself, but if we have, you know, paying the other nurse practitioners that we have, we employ, um, we employ for, uh, you know, that’s another, oh, fifteen thousand or so. So like payroll obligation a month is about thirty thousand dollars. So where’s all your like, how, how much are you guys spending a month? I’m, I’m, I’m just kind of fabric. I’m kind of confused here. If you’re making one hundred thousand dollars a month and you’re not making a profit, like how much are you guys paying these people outside of the fifteen dollars an hour? Like, okay, so honestly, it’s also truly, it’s a lot of our weight loss medications cost us a ton of money. Sure. Our rent cost us a ton of money. We’re in high end parts of the town. And so that is where a lot of our money goes. I got you. Okay. So okay, so we’re, we’re also expanding the Jacksonville location. That’s, that’s also something she’s, she’s not mentioned yet is, is that we’ve kind of outgrown our space here in Jacksonville and we’re moving to a new, bigger, better location. And we’re. And we’re building that out to them. So that’s another expense that we’re working on as we speak here as well, so I okay, I got you. So then with the capacity that you guys have now with your employees, let’s talk about anything else. Let’s just talk about the employees here with the capacity that you have with the nurse practitioners, that you have, the medical assistants, you know, basically everyone that you have here, how many more patients can you bring in at this current level of, uh, you know, of, of, of employees, basically. Well, now we could bring in another thousand people, no problem with the current with, with, with what you have in place now, you can absolutely, I can if somebody if the open enrollment and they decided I had ten, you know, ten businesses that were interested and they each had fifty, fifty people or forty nine people rather or one hundred businesses, we have the capacity now, or we can launch. We are okay. Okay. Rock and roll. Okay, I got you. So then your expenses are basically covering, um, covering everything, but there’s a lot of room here that it could really skyrocket with the current capacity you have. Absolutely correct. And that’s where my business partner and I have kind of had like a little bit of differences in opinion is, hey, listen, he’s like, hey, we got to sell, sell, sell. And I said, hey, if I sell a business of forty people, I could we, we don’t have the capacity to take care of those people. We just don’t. But you do now. We do now you do. And so this is within the last again, since February, we’ve been growing the, um, practices. We’ve been opening. We’re building out a new clinic, which again, Shane’s absolutely right. I should have mentioned that we’re building out a new clinic in the most desirable location in Jacksonville. So part of the expenses goes towards that. So now bring it. Bring it on a thousand patients. Bring on honestly two thousand patients. At this point. We are ready to rock and roll. Bring it on. And so I think this is where and maybe I would love your opinion on this, where business growth and business expenditure where like, I wish you right now, like where, where do you, where do you meet and where do you yeah, you guys are in the sweet spot right now. Like everything is covered. And so now it’s like, you know, I have this capacity now, you know, like it’s a simple analogy is I had this grocery bag that’s, you know, half full, um, this grocery bag is this size, which would be, you know, your practice and your employees or whatever. But I could still put, you know, I could still put twice as much in this thing. Right? So that’s where you guys are at, right? So like, you shouldn’t have to buy a bigger grocery bag to fill it up. Like you guys know, your grocery bag is the size that it is now, and you need to max that out before you hire or do anything else crazy. Right now, you do not need to be spending any kind of money on any other sorts of big expenses in your business right now. You need to keep your expenses right now Completely level. The only the only expenses that should go up now are expenses that are related to patient care. But you should be getting that money back from, you know, the increase in volume, right? Did you did you talk to my business partner before this? No, because you sure sound like him. No, but it’s absolutely right. And that’s what’s so exciting about this, is we literally have the ability now to blow up because we have everybody in place, everybody in line, everybody is trained. The patients are going to have the best experience as they should have. And we’re ready to rock and roll. Yeah. So patient acquisition right now should be your number one priority, right? Nothing else, nothing else. Right. Everything else is bullshit. And that’s why it doesn’t matter. A lot of the expenses are going there is is with the marketing strategy and everything like that as well. And, and just as an awareness campaign, you know, I do, I do radio show here in Jacksonville as well. So we’re putting money into the radio show and just getting the notoriety out there here, here in Jacksonville and kind of expand a little bit. Okay. So okay, so what’s working right now from a marketing aspect, how have you guys doubled your patient load in the last ten months? What, what what’s working? Shane, would you like to speak on that? I think you’re way better at the marketing side than I am. Oh, no. No, it’s totally fine. Um, so there are several things that that really works. And I do think the, the radio has really played a large role here in Jacksonville. Uh, and not only that is also word of mouth is pretty, pretty powerful. Honestly. Yes, it is huge. Um, everyone tells everyone, I mean, I’ve got old professors coming down here. Um, I’ve got my MP students as patients. Um, once they see the level of care that they get, they’re just like, whoa, this is new. I don’t wait, you know, there’s, there’s nothing. So giving that higher level of, of experience and care, it just travels fast, um, as well. And, you know, just some, uh, small campaigns of as far as going to chamber meetings, meeting business owners, sharing with them, and then bringing on those businesses. So instead of going after one patient, we can get ten, fifteen, twenty. Um, with, with businesses. So the, so the B2B, um, acquisition has been really amazing. You know, we’ve brought on some nonprofits here in Jacksonville. Um, I mean, it’s just been really, um, awesome as far as, as the B2B as well. Yeah. Well, yeah, you know, business to business. I mean, if you, if you, if you have a business that can actually provide services to another business, then that’s where you need to be. You know, that that’s where you need to make your priority because businesses usually pay their bills and they should be somewhat consistent, right? Yeah. So, um, that’s, that’s really happy that, that you reinforce that. Uh, so thank you one hundred percent. Yeah, yeah, that’s where you need to be focusing your energies on. Like, if my practice was more, you know, if I had the capacity to market towards businesses themselves. I would totally be doing it. But my mental health clinic are it’s not really applicable to it. So, um, you guys have the capacity to do that. So that’s where I put my energy at. So with that said, you know, radio radio is expensive. Um oh yeah. Yeah. It’s expensive. How confident are you that you’re getting patients to justify that cost? How confident are you with that? Do you know? Um, so the answer is we do know and it, it’s going to take a little bit of time. Uh, the thing about radio is that it takes time to build that rapport and that in that relationship. Um, and that’s only just recently started maybe in the last month and a half, two months. Um, but we started to see traction there. How many? So how much are you spending a month on it? Uh, I think it’s a, a couple grand a month, roughly couple thousands, two or three thousand dollars, something like that. Yeah. And how many patients have you gotten it from it so far that you know of one hundred percent certain? That’s a good question. Um. Oh, um, I mean. A couple of high ticket ones we’ve, we’ve gathered and a couple of, um, uh, a couple of dppc patients and weight loss. Um, you know, I think it’s kind of a wash at this point. You know, it’s kind of like a break. Yeah, yeah, it’s about a wash. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s kind of been my experience with radio overall too. It’s usually just kind of a wash. It’s nothing spectacular. Um, usually three months. Okay. Anyone who’s listening to the radio after three months, you’re going to pretty much hit their entire audience at that point multiple times. And at three months, if you’re not really seeing a whole lot of return, I would just, I would nix it. And, and, and, and, and how does that help you with business to business as well? It’s not really going to, you know, so, um, I’m just trying to think of ways, you know or be thinking of ways here that how you can save yourself a little money from a marketing aspect and really put your focus and energy into more of the cheaper options. And so outside of radio. Um, you know, business, business acquisition, that’s just sales, right? That’s just you going and knocking on some doors and talking to people. Right, right. Or going to chamber meetings here, here in Jacksonville. And then there you go. Tallahassee chamber. Yeah, yeah. Um, so, and that’s pretty like inexpensive, honestly, you just go out and you offer value and then you share, share what you do. And, and that’s really it, right? It just takes time. Yeah. So that’s the thing is that it takes a lot of it, it takes a lot of touch points for anyone to really convert. You know, it takes them seeing you on YouTube or Facebook or chamber or radio or Instagram. It takes at least six or seven touch points to, to, to say, yes, I want to go do business with them. And that’s, that’s kind of where it is. Right, right, right. Okay. So this is what I would do then. Um, you know, obviously keep doing what you’re doing there. Uh, of commerce meetings and that sort of thing. But also be thinking to yourself here, what can you do to market directly to them? And the thing about business to business sales is that, um, calling them directly or, uh, direct mail is usually kind of the way that you do it more from a business to business perspective versus paid advertising, like, you know, pay per click kind of stuff. Gotcha. Yeah. And so building mail as in like paper mail or as in exactly direct mail business owners, they check their mail on a daily basis. I mean, you know, your eyes are always open. Yeah, yeah. You know, your eyes are always open for that letter from the IRS, right? So I’m like, I’m so anti paper that you’re like, oh, you’re right, you’re right, you’re right. But it kills me a little bit inside. Uh, don’t worry too much about it. I mean it’s going to cost you a tree, you know. So um, yeah, you know, there’s tree farms all over the place. It’s it’s I’m not talking about being a hippie tree lover, which I kind of am, but also just like I, I don’t love getting mail, but you know what I did? I’m moving. I’m selling my house. You know how I got my movers from a mailer? Yeah. It works. Okay. You’re absolutely right. Direct now, direct to consumer direct mail doesn’t work as well as business to business though. Okay. Yeah. So I mean, I’ve had a few direct mail, um, campaigns at my men’s health clinic and, you know, I mean, they did okay. Yeah, it was a break even kind of a thing, but business to business on the other hand, though, like I said, most business owners are going to open up the letters that they get. Yeah, there’s a lot of junk mail that you get as a business owner. I mean, we all get credit card offers. We all get a bunch of crap, right? So it has, right. So it has to be something that speaks directly to them on the envelope, you know, um, do you want affordable health coverage. Health insurance coverage or affordable. Um. Uh, affordable primary care for your employees. You know, something like that, that just catches their eye immediately on the envelope. That’s how you have to do it. Okay. And then it has to be kind of straight to the point when they open it up. It’s a nice brochure, it’s a nice flyer, whatever it is, that basically just goes over the benefits and why they should go with you. Right. And as a business owner, what’s some of the most important things? It’s it’s, it’s dollars. Okay. Like money in, money out, right. That’s how a business operates. And so you need to be talking directly to the business owner from that aspect. This is how much it costs. This is how much it saves you. This is how it improves, you know, uh, employee satisfaction, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. Just bullet points on why they should go with you and the benefits of it. Okay, so I do have a question for you, Justin. So like when we are, I’m working with a, um, Krems. Of course. I’m a tech geek. I’m the one who created all of our systems here, and I’m the it, um, the chief information. I’m the everything, but um, the using of like, um, these CRMs to be able to acquire information, for example, and then sending them emails from there. Do you find that beneficial at all? Have you used that? Well, yeah, I mean you could do, you could do an email campaign. Sure. But I mean what’s the chances of that going straight to junk mail. That’s right, that’s right. You know, I mean you could do that. I just I don’t think it’s going to be as effective. Certainly. Try it. Why not. But you’re going to have so far. But I don’t know if like how beneficial that is. And if you had any advice on that. Yeah. You’re gonna have to get the email addresses to the people that matter too. So how the hell do you get those? You know, that’s going to be the biggest obstacle. Zoominfo, which is one of the CRMs we use, which is incredible. But also, like I, we get bombarded with those, and I feel like I’m going to bombard them with this information also. How do they delineate the difference between the direct primary care, which is us and these insurance people that, you know, it’s open enrollment about to be open enrollment. I mean, it should be it should be one of those you’re just one of those people that are calling about health insurance. I’m like, no, we’re different though. No, I think it should be pretty damn obvious in the direct mailer. We are not insurance. We are a primary care office that provides care directly to the patient, directly to your employee. Yes. And that’s exactly where our what our thankfully, our marketing woman, Maggie, she’s the best. And she has all of that data. So you’re right and you’re right. You should be able to show the, the prices. And so what I’d like to do is gather some data and maybe you can give me some advice on this. I’m talking out loud and Shane knows I like to talk out loud. And I’m sure some ideas is that if you have some data to say, hey, listen, you’ve been paying X amount for these employees based on this, you know, data I’ve gathered, I’m a data geek and this is how much you’ll pay. Alternatively. And so I feel like that might be something I could draw people in on. Oh yeah. You should definitely have that information in the, you know, in the mailer for sure. You know, I would just Google, I mean, I’m sure there’s so many statistics out there that you can grab information just from a Google search. You know, they are they’re showing that in Florida, our, our increase in healthcare expenditures is going to be seven percent. I have a insurance or sorry, a business I’m working with and their insurance agent quoted a two percent increase, but it’s actually going to be more like a seven percent increase. Right. So then you need to make sure that you’re, you know, from your pricing standpoint, it needs to be something significant, significantly cheaper for the business owner. Thirty, forty, fifty percent difference, you know, in price, which is what I would assume probably it would be. So like sixty percent, sixty percent, sixty percent cost savings, like who the hell wouldn’t want to take advantage, right? I know, because I think people are like, oh, what’s the gimmick here? I’m like, there’s literally no gimmick. It’s just no, there’s not. No, this is a different way to this is a different way to have affordable health care for your, for your business. And how can I help you? Right. Just write it out. Simple. You know, don’t, don’t do not write a wall of text. Make this as simple as possible. Straight to the point. Okay, so, um, now getting the, you know, getting the, uh, getting the addresses. I would highly advise against just going somewhere that just has these lists. Um, I would try to custom make one and so you can hire, there’s all kinds of firms out there. You could go even go on somewhere like Upwork dot com and hire someone to do it, you know, a, some sort of data gatherer or whatever. And they can, and they can create a list of, uh, of businesses in Florida in the areas that you’re in, you know, be like, I want the list of businesses that are around, you know, anywhere between four to forty nine employees or whatever. And I need the, uh, the name of the business and the address. And then they’ll basically give you this Excel sheet. All right. Uh, that’ll have, you know, a thousand businesses on it or whatever. And then you can either hire a direct mail company, you know, you provide them that list and then they actually do the dirty work for you in terms of just like sending out the letters for you. You know, so how do you find that list initially though? You have to build it out. That’s what I’m saying. Go to Upwork dot com or whatever and hire someone to build that list for you. Okay. Right. So, um, texting myself, by the way, if anybody doesn’t text themselves, they need to. Yeah. Um, but, uh, but yeah, anyways, so that’s kind of how you build it. And then there’s, there’s all kinds of companies online that, you know, that can actually do the mail for you. Or if you wanted to, you could just, you know, hire a couple teenagers that, you know, in your family do it, you know. I mean, it’s I got a couple of those, right? So you, you could be creative here, you know, so this could cost you very, very little. Like you can hire, you know, someone to build this list for you for five hundred bucks, seven hundred dollars or something, you know, um, and then you could just do all the mail yourself. You print out, you know, a thousand labels, a thousand envelopes, and you just fold them, pop them in the mail, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, and just do it, you know, and I guarantee you you’re going to get some calls. I love that. That’s good advice. Thank you so much. Absolutely. For sure. It might cost you a couple thousand dollars total. You know, actually we can probably get it free because my rep over at the Sbdc has a software to where he can pull up certain things based on criteria. So. Well, there you go. Yeah. So that’ll be free for us. Awesome. Yeah. There you go. I mean, yeah, yeah, there’s databases of this stuff out there too, you know? So yeah. So that would be one way you get business to business. And then another way would be just, you know, calling some places up or just literally going in there and dropping off some brochures or something, you know? So a lot of this stuff is very cheap and it could be effective. I mean, all you guys need is to secure ten, fifteen, twenty contracts for some small businesses. And you pretty much have your thousand more patients and now you’ve just doubled your income again. And. Yeah, yeah. And now you’re yeah, now you’re making some significant money. Right. And then at that point, you either say, hey, you know, let’s just pay ourselves some good money here for the next year. Let word of mouth kind of do its thing. Let’s enjoy the fruits of our labor, our fruits of our labor for a little while. Um, give it a year or two and just let word of mouth evolve and just let it grow organically or. All that money that you’re making, then you reinvest back into the business and expand even further through more marketing efforts, hiring some more employees, whatever it is that you got to do to, to grow, right? So at that point, it’s really up to you. Yeah, that’s really good advice. Thank you so much for that. I appreciate it. Yeah for sure. So that’s what I would do if you really want to grow this thing. I would say the biggest thing that you guys need to make sure that you navigate carefully here is to keep your expenses in check. And how do you feel like with your practice that you were able to grow the most, the hiring other nurse practitioners? So I didn’t have so I didn’t have to be in the business so much. Right, right. And then be able to do elite NP podcast, right? I can focus on other things that I wanted to do. You know, I could focus more working on the business versus in it. Yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s what’s so fascinating and hard for us, I think, is that we’re really in that mindset, but we’re just in that transitionary period where we’re trying to figure that out. And so we really appreciate your advice in trying to figure that out for sure. Thank you. Yeah, that’s the transition is difficult. That’s a hard place to be. You know, once you get through it though, you’re gonna be like, damn, that was that was so worth the effort and the work, you know. Yeah, absolutely. We love the work. And that’s the thing is like that Shane and I and he can agree. We actually we love the work. We we love working for ourselves. We love working for other people. And sure, we might want to make some money, but truly like what my whole thing is, is I want to, I want to make sure that there’s more health care provided for more people. And so I’m passionate about this. And so it’s, it’s, I feel like it’s less about the sales and more about the education. Would you agree with that? Oh, well, that too. And also building relationships in, in our community. Right. Um, it just feels really great. Um, having, having people come to us and say, you know, thanks for all you do, you know, you’ve, you’ve, you’ve really changed my life. I’m like, well, that’s, that’s amazing, you know, and, and even even even the radio show, I know it’s expensive, but then again, you know, I have people on like messenger just saying, thank you for answering that question and, and thanks for sharing information. You know, so it’s really about the community and being a true partner in the community. Yeah. Well, there you go. I mean, you’re doing a bunch of stuff that you guys enjoy too. So, you know, continue doing that stuff, continue focusing more on that and not having to do all the day to day stuff. You know, it’s a grind. I know you’re right. Right. Seeing ten patients for hypertension, all this kind of stuff. You can have other people do that. Some of that stuff. You can focus a little bit more on these activities that you enjoy. The radio show, going out and educating the community, building these relationships. That’s the stuff you focus on. And in exchange, your business will just grow without you even trying. Oh, thank you for the reassurance. That means so much to us, truly, because we’re trying so hard. We work our asses off and we are trying so hard because we truly love people. Is that right, Shane? Oh yeah. Spot on. Freaking love people. And we just want to and like, the money is a thing, of course. Like it is what it is. But we, we just love people and we want to see people succeed and thrive. And that’s what we want to do. And so I guess like that’s the compromise too, is making sure that you’re making money and also ensuring that people are thriving at the same time. Well, it sounds like you guys are set up to accomplish both here, so I wouldn’t even worry about it. Sweet. I appreciate that. Yeah for sure. Means a whole lot to us. Yeah. No for sure. It’s a pleasure to help. So, um, I know we’re kind of, uh, ending time here, so, uh, any other questions? Anything else you want to cover real quick? Any advice? Any more advice that you have for us as a new thriving practice? Um, we would really appreciate any advice you have for us. So I think what, what I see often in people who have early success, I mean, you know, you guys have been open how long? A year and a half, two years. So we opened in about three years ago. About three years ago. We we acquired Shane’s clinic a year and a half ago. Or what was it, Shane? Was it a year ago? Uh, it’s only yeah, it’s been literally like twelve months, one year. So yeah. So real business has only really been going on for about a year and a half, right. You know? Yeah. Real, real business, right. This model. Okay. So, um, so, you know, let’s, let’s just, let’s just call it two years, right? So in two years, you guys have gained a lot of steam. Okay. I mean, getting to six figures plus this many employees, two locations, this sort of thing in two years is pretty impressive. And so what happens a lot of times with a lot of people when they get into a groove like this and they’re starting to make some really good money, they see their business succeeding. Um, they, they get into financial problems. And so my biggest piece of advice for you guys is to be as frugal as possible and keep your expenses down as much as possible in your business and also in your real life. That’s when some real problems can start arising is when you know, you might be living a little over your means. Or let’s say you’re even living at your means, you know, in your personal life and business slows down for some reason. A recession hits us, you know, God knows, right? Who knows what can happen to the economy at any given time, right? And so the reason why you have a good financial plan in place by, you know, living frugally, living below your means, having a solid emergency fund, having six months in the bank, a minimum of expenses at for your personal life and your business. Okay. Um, having those kinds of contingencies and redundancies in your life will allow you to weather any kind of a bad storm that might present itself. If you do not have those things in place, you can find yourself in a world of hurt very, very quickly. And that is the reason why businesses fail. It’s not it’s not because they stopped making money. It’s because they’re just they’re overstretched. Sure, they might still be making money, but they don’t have enough money to pay the bills and then the business fails, right? Um, so that’s my biggest piece of advice for you guys and for anyone else listening. Like, you gotta be smart. You just gotta be smart financially. So I guess, and then when you talk about growth though, right? So we’ve hired all these people and we are so grateful for these help. So it’s like we’re at the place where again, I’m trying to use my hands to be able to show you where you like, meet this growth that you want to have. And then you hire people that you need. And so you, you ideally have this growth that’s going to be able to sustain the current, but you also have to hire people to have that growth, to be able to ensure your patients have the same experience that they’ve had when it was just Shane Grindle and Taylor Andrew here taking care of those people. You know what I mean? Right? So where is the where do you just wait it out? Is that what you do? If if if you’re in a situation where it’s kind of going south or something and we’re not going south, it’s just I guess the advice would be it’s okay to have these hires, right? It’s okay to have these people helping you, right? Well, when you have the capacity, you have the capacity now to grow. And so what is your advice on that? Yeah. Well, I mean, like I mentioned earlier in the, you know, in the podcast was that you’re at a point now where it’s the revenue is paying for all the expenses and everything. And so now it’s, you just got to fill up your bag, right? So you’re at a point now where you do not need to hire anybody else. So you’re at a good spot. You’ve invested a tremendous amount of money into this business up to this point for having all this staff and having your systems and having all the training and all the stuff you’ve you’ve invested into it. So now it’s now it’s time to start getting the return back on it. Right now it’s time to start growing. And so you as the business owner, with having lots of staff like this is you need to stay on top of productivity, right? Okay. You really need to stay on top of it. You know, don’t listen to the employee. Listen to them. Okay. Oh, yeah. We’re real busy. You know what? I’ve had people at my mental clinic tell me that, too, and I would just randomly show up one day. I’m like, the hell are you talking about? There’s no one here, right? You don’t know busy. You don’t know busy friend. You don’t? Yeah. You don’t know. Busy. Come work in urgent care and see one hundred and eighteen patients in one day. That is a hospitalist. That’s right. Yeah. Right, right. You don’t know what busy is. Shut up. You know. Yeah. So you have. Yeah. You gotta stay on top of these people. Okay. So you, you know, you as the business owner, you really, really got to stay on top of them and make sure that they’re still productive and whatnot. Because once laziness starts happening, you’ll start noticing income start going down and that kind of thing. And you as the business owners, you know, you could have a manager watching your employees and doing that kind of thing for you. But, um, you as a business owner, you still need to stay on top of it. Okay. So good advice. Thank you so much. Yeah, yeah. For sure. So I guess hopefully that answers your question. Yeah, absolutely. And thank you so much for having us on today. You are incredible. And your questions are super probing and awesome. And I’m excited about all the things in the future and your help and your support. And thank you so much for having us on the podcast. Yeah, it was a pleasure to help you guys. So, um, I don’t know if you’ve listened to podcast before, but I like to end the episode with you guys asking me a question. It can be personal question or a curiosity, you know, either you, uh, Taylor or Shane, either one of you, do you have any, any curiosities or questions you’ve ever wanted to just like ask me? How about we shoot a question and Shane goes first? Oh, fantastic. What’s what’s next on the courses, man? What’s next on the courses? Yeah, I just I just got your peptide course by the way. And it’s it’s good. So what’s next? Yeah. The anti-aging course. Uh, yeah. Yeah. Dude, I have, I got like eight of these things kind of just sitting on the back burner. You know, fair enough. Yeah. We, we have a DPC course that’s, you know, that’s kind of still going through the works. Advanced IV infusion, advanced women’s health, um, a new regenerative medicine course, uh, neurology for the nurse practitioner course, comprehensive diabetes course, um, functional medicine, pediatric course, chronic disease management, functional medicine course. Like dude, I, you know, it’s like, is that all? Justin. Yeah, yeah. It or no, there’s a couple other ones I’m forgetting to write, but I did mention we actually do IV therapy in the clinic too. We didn’t mention that as part of our services. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It’s a, you know, it’s a, it’s a great add on service, you know, um, it is, yeah, yeah. So, um, so yeah, anyways, that, you know, that’s, that’s pretty much what we have planned for the next twelve months. Things happen, come and go though. Maybe sometimes, of course, you know, it just doesn’t really come to fruition for a variety of different reasons. But but anyways though, so yeah, yeah. Good question. By the time this is released though, some of those courses have already been out. So. All right. So can I ask you my question. Yes. What is how do you deal with work life balance? Yeah that’s a good question. So, uh, it definitely depends on where you’re at, um, in the journey though. Right? So, um, and even in the journey of just life, right? So right now, work life balance is pretty good. You know, I mean, I had a kid, um, married, you know, all my businesses are basically working for me at this point. So it’s, it’s been, it’s been easy to find that balance in the last year, year and a half because I don’t have to work so much in the business. And that’s through delegating work and that sort of a thing. Right. And so, but during the hustle period, you know, where I was working eighty hours a week or whatever it was, you know, working at urgent care. Picking up shifts in the ER, you know, starting three businesses at the same time. There was no such thing as balance, you know, there just wasn’t, you know, but that was the sacrifice that I had to make to get to where I’m at. Yeah. So it’s one of those things that I think you got to step back and say, you know, am I miserable right now in terms of like balance? You know, do I feel like all I’m doing is working? Is that the only thing that I can talk about, you know, is that the only thing that’s ever on my mind? Like when you start getting to that point, it’s really time to step back and be like, okay, you got a problem, you have a problem, right? Yeah, yeah. And that, that, that, that’s, that’s, that’s the warning sign. I think the big warning sign too, is just the inability to relate to people anymore because all you do is work and all you do is, you know, that’s great. That’s so, that’s so true. And I have a seven year old. How old is how old is your child? Uh, ten months. Oh my goodness. You’ve got a baby, baby, baby. Yeah. And it’s interesting as a father of a ten month old versus a seven year old. So my son is so proud of me and what I do. I went to a really cool connection, um, an event this past weekend. And you know, he did, he went around, he gave everybody my stickers for the clinic and my yoga. That’s awesome. And he is the most handsome, sweetest little boy. And it’s interesting because work life balance, you can incorporate your family into it, especially if it is something that they are also passionate about and appreciative of. And so I found that incorporating my son into the practice and he, that day, I was like, I’m going to get a sitter. And I was like, I’m not going to get a sitter. I’m going to get somebody. I’m going to get him to come to the to the event with me. And he’s my biggest seller. And so I had twenty connections at that event because my son went around and gave my business cards. And he’s so proud of his mommy and he’s so grateful. Talk about marketing. That’s it. That’s a good marketing tactic. That’s a good marketing tactic. Yeah. You know. Right. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah yeah yeah. That’s an excellent marketing tactic. Um, you know, I guess the thing is with, you know, with you, um, I know we’re kind of just chit chatting now, but with you, um, you know, your son’s able to kind of see your growth, right? Right. My son just going to end up going to school and say daddy’s rich and has no clue why. That’s hilarious. But he’s like, he’s like, mommy’s selling her house right now. So we can make sure that we make ends meet. And he’s okay with that. He’s cool with it. He gets back, right? It’s amazing. Yeah, yeah. So so yeah. And that’s, you know, that’s a blessing. I wish my son was going to be able to see, you know, how it how it got there. But by the time he realizes it, I think I’m going to pretty much be done. So. Well, maybe he will though. Maybe you have the ability to which my dad is a very successful entrepreneur, and I don’t think he did instill that in me And the ability of his self and what he did for us. And I feel like as a entrepreneur, as a nurse practitioner and all the things you’re doing, you do have the ability to install that in your child, whether you’re a millionaire or not in ten years, you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I’m definitely going to instill that into him, you know? But it’s just that he’s not going to be able to he’s not going to see that, you know. That’s right. Why the hell. Right. Like, why does daddy play golf on Wednesdays and Thursdays when all my other friends dads are working? And you know what I mean? Because daddy’s crushing it. Why? Yeah. So that’s so much I love that. It’s interesting, though, that that brings up like the different stages of the growth, you know, and so whether whoever is listening to this now that, whether it’s you as your multi-millionaire self, when your kid is seven and my kid who’s seven and I’m trying to grow a practice, There’s the ability for education and the ability for them to see where we started from and where we’ve come. Yeah. And that’s that’s precious. You can’t you can’t buy that. No. Yeah. No no no no no. You know you can’t. Yeah. So so anyways, I know we go a little over time. This was a great conversation guys. Yeah for sure. So if you guys ever want to do a follow up you got my email, shoot me an email. Absolutely. Love to. I know you said the podcast will be posted in a few months from now because you’re crushing it and have so many people you’re podcasting, but I would love to do a follow up in five months to see where we are from five months from now, if you’re interested in that. And that way we can do a comparison, which I think would be really interesting. Let’s do it. Yeah. You guys shoot me an email and then we’ll and we’ll get it done. Justin, thank you so much for having us on your podcast today. We really. Absolutely. It was a pleasure to help you guys take care. All right, Jeff, thanks so much, man. Thank you. Bye bye. I hope everyone enjoyed the conversation with Shane and Taylor. Lots of information in there. Sounds like they’re killing it, you know. DPC can be very profitable, especially if there’s a need for it in your area. They did everything smart here, you know. They did everything right here. They hired help, right. They had a proven model where they saw that they were profitable. So they had a proven model. They hired employees. They hired the right people. They put the money into marketing. Basically, they invested their money back into their business. Okay. That’s how you grow a business, right? Even though they’re not really making a whole lot right now, they’re not really making much of a profit. They’re going to very, very quickly and very, very shortly. And they’re going to make a lot of money because they invested the money into their business. All right. So I think it’s critically important that you understand that concept. Okay. You have to invest money into your Business. Basically, you either pay yourself and then, you know, spend your money on your normal life or whatever, or you spend the money in your business to grow it, right? Putting money into your business is one of the best investments that you can make. You’re going to make more money investing money into your business than you ever will investing in stocks or anything else. So keep that in mind. All right, everyone, in this episode. Talk to you later. Thanks. Bye. Thank you for listening to the show. 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