"You can get past the dead end. You can break through the ceiling. I did and so have countless others."
In this episode, Justin sits down with Joe, a psychiatric nurse practitioner who has built a thriving telehealth practice serving patients across Massachusetts. With a full caseload, strong patient retention, and a business he genuinely enjoys running, Joe is now focused on a different challenge: figuring out what comes next.
Together, they explore strategies for scaling beyond the solo provider model, including hiring additional clinicians, creating concierge-style offerings, and introducing complementary services that can add value for patients while creating new revenue opportunities. They also discuss the realities of delegation, practice valuation, and what it takes to build a business that can continue growing without relying entirely on the owner’s time.
If you’ve already built a solid practice and are wondering how to create more freedom, more scalability, and more long-term opportunity, this episode offers a practical look at the decisions that can help get you there.
J (00:01.166)
Look it up. We are recording. Everyone, today we’ll be talking to Joe, who is a psych nurse practitioner. Currently he is operating his own telepsite practice where he provides services for ADHD, anxiety, depression, and PTSD. He states business currently is pretty healthy as a solo practitioner, but he is needing assistance with developing his high-ticket concierge practice, growing the practice in general, and how to integrate some new services into the practice from more of a cash-based perspective. So hey Joe, how are you?
Joe (00:27.517)
I’m doing great, thank you. How you doing?
J (00:29.474)
Doing good, man. Thanks for ropping on here. So yeah, tell us about yourself. How long you’ve been an NP for and I guess kinda how you got started doing your own thing.
Joe (00:36.827)
Yeah, sure. So to back up a bit further, I I started from the ground up. Like I I started as a certified nurses aide, and then like you know did that as I was getting my associate’s RN degree, working at a local community hospital emergency department. From there I went and got my bachelor’s at UMass Boston.
And then eventually to Northeastern, where I got my master’s as a psych NP. And my first NP job was with a group practice here in Boston Mass. That was primarily like a therapy practice, but then later expanded to include medication management, which is where I came in. And this was I started working as an NP in 2019, so like right before COVID hit. I think I worked in the office.
office for probably a total of like two or three months before everyone was working remotely, right? So about I want to say somewhere like two, two and a half years into working with this company
I eventually asked my boss, you know, thinking about it, like, I’m providing like all my own office space. I’m using, I’m doing all my own scheduling, my own billing, like I’m doing it all. He’s not really providing that much for me. I asked for a raise, and he gave me the best answer he could have given me. He said no. So literally the next day, that’s when I started working on building journey psychiatric care, my own practice.
and that, you know, I I didn’t put any pressure on myself. that probably took me about maybe like a year or so still working for that group practice and little by slow building up my client base. and then eventually I took that leap of faith and quit that group practice and I’ve been fully self employed now for about I think I’m going on three years now. Yeah.
J (02:47.118)
Nice. Yeah, hell yeah. Cool.
Joe (02:49.299)
Yeah, it’s been quite an adventure.
J (02:51.988)
Yeah. good for you. So, I mean really big chunk of your MP career then has just been you being employed. yourself employed rather. Yeah. Yeah. okay, so then the business. Are you is is is this cash only or is it or is it insurance as well?
Joe (03:11.409)
No, it’s primarily insurance. I take all major insurances. I probably have about somewhere between half dozen, a dozen or so clients who pay cash just because they prefer to stay with me rather than go to one of their like in network providers or like if they don’t have insurance or something. but yeah, primarily insurance based, which as we all know is a hassle and a pain in the ass. But yeah, so
as I mentioned to you in email, I’m realizing that I’ve completely gotten over my imposter syndrome, right? And I’m actually pretty fucking good at what I do. and what are the metrics for that, right? I I’ve the Google reviews are great that I’ve got from folks. I probably have a caseload of about 250 or so patients.
but I have some of my patients like the the mom who has referred her children to me, or the the patient who has referred their partner to me. That’s how I know I’m doing something right. so I’m I’m providing this level of service to my current insurance-paying clients.
And I’m looking for your help to hopefully identify y you know
wealthy individuals who would appreciate this level of service, so like this concierge psych service, who don’t want to deal with the insurance bullshit and are willing to pay because they can afford it and and like, you know, pay cash or whatever. so I’m really just looking to pay off my 180 grand in student loans. You know, and have more financial freedom.
J (05:03.83)
yeah.
Right, right. Okay. So then the insurance component of it’s doing well. Now let me ask you why I mean are you’re you’re only in one state, correct? Are you only seeing patients in one state right now? Yeah? Okay. and you’re in a pretty affluent area it sounds like for the most part. I mean people have good jobs and there’s money and stuff.
Joe (05:17.543)
Yeah. Yep.
Joe (05:28.733)
Yeah, I mean Massachusetts is one of the most expensive places in the country to live. Boston. So a a lot of my clients are like Somerville, Cambridge, Boston, Greater Boston area, but like all throughout the state really.
J (05:42.966)
Yeah, yeah. So so that’s not really an issue there. so I guess we can go about this two ways, I’m thinking. So if you want to develop some more financial independence, then yeah, you can integrate some concierge services into your practice, some high ticket concierge practic you know, services. while c still continue to do the insurance stuff, ’cause I mean the insurance stuff, I mean you’re you’re doing well. I mean, why you don’t want to stop that, obviously, right? So
Joe (06:11.325)
Exactly. Ideally I’d love to like maintain that and then I’m thinking, you know, maybe I would need like a half dozen to a dozen of these other folks who can like really afford to pay s cash and like maybe these are people who would like have my cell phone number for example and just have that like next level of service.
J (06:12.738)
Yeah, yeah.
J (06:36.782)
Correct, yeah, exactly. so let’s think about this two different ways here. So you have you have a practice that’s doing well right now, out of curiosity before I continue, revenue wise on a on a monthly basis, estimated and we don’t need exact number here, but
Joe (06:56.591)
monthly basis. Well I’ll I’ll tell you annually at probably about two fifty, two hundred and fifty thousand I generate and overheads Yeah.
J (07:03.854)
Okay. Okay. Okay. So twenty twenty thousand a month, give or take. Yeah. Yeah, which is dude, that’s pretty good for being an NP. I mean that’s
Joe (07:13.959)
I’m I’m not complaining. I’m I’m in love with my practice. I love what I do. Like yeah, it’s it’s unfortunate.
J (07:22.242)
Yeah. Are you seeing patients five days a week? What’s your schedule like?
Joe (07:26.843)
No man. like Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday I see patients. I reserve Thursday and Friday for administrative stuff, catching up on my notes, whatever. but I started using AI scribe, so that’s helped out a lot. so like prior authorization bullshit from like yeah, what we don’t need to get into that. Like we know that hassle. so yeah, like three days a week are my client facing days.
J (07:55.79)
So how many hours a week do you put into this practice?
Joe (07:58.944)
so I see patients usually have full days Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday from like nine to four a little bit after. and then I don’t know, I’d say probably an additional ten or so hours a week with like refill requests and all the other stuff.
J (08:23.726)
So you are working less than 40 hours a week. Yeah. All right. You’re working less than 40 hours a week, making $250,000 a year. That’s it’s really good. So we obviously don’t want to do anything to break what’s working, right? So so let’s go about this two different ways. Number one is
Joe (08:27.219)
Yeah.
J (08:43.456)
Yeah, you can create a high ticket concierge thing, which ultimately is gonna give you it’s gonna give you more work, right? It’s gonna increase your, you know, hourly your your hourly responsibility to the business. So you can go that route. It gives you more work to do, right? But those clients overall, high ticket stuff, high ticket concierge stuff, people oftentimes think that they’re gonna get these patients who have your number and
Joe (08:58.623)
Sure.
J (09:13.26)
you know, they’re gonna text you for things and you know, et cetera. Oftentimes with these high ticket kind of things, you know, these people are busy. They have businesses, they’re high functioning professionals. They’re not gonna really bother you that much, you know, but they like the convenience and they like the red carpet kind of treatment when they when they need help, they get it fairly quick, same day kind of thing.
Joe (09:33.661)
Yeah. The comfort knowing that’s there. Yeah, right.
J (09:37.366)
Yeah, yeah. So, you know, if you have a dozen of these people, then, you know, how many hours extra a week is it gonna be? I mean, probably in reality, man, three, you know, like it’s not gonna be that much. so so you can do that. But ultimately at the end of the day, though, the business is still 100% reliant on you, right?
So you have an insurance practice right now that’s generating very, very healthy income for you. So I think you want to think about also scaling what you have in addition to doing the high ticket thing. So, you know, you can integrate
other services into your practice and stuff like that, but ultimately at the end of the day, still it’s it’s still requiring your input with it, right? So so I think that you want to think about this two ways. I think you want to think about how do I scale what I have now, this model that I’ve that I’ve developed, how do I scale this and then also get some of this stuff off my plate, more of this this busy work stuff, this insurance based stuff, get some of this off my plate and focus on what I really want to focus on is more of that one on one concierge kind of stuff. So I think that’s the way I would approach
this. So with that said, you know, you have an insurance based model. So let’s talk about that first. So what’s preventing you from hiring another NP, PRN, ten hours a week or something to start beginning seeing patients for you?
Joe (10:58.553)
You know, the only thing really is along my nursing journey I’ve worked in management. I was the manager of a dual diagnosis unit at an inpatient psych hospital in Boston for a bit.
I also worked as the director of education for that hospital for a few years and I I you know I don’t really want to manage people. Even with, you know, professional NPs like ourselves, there there’s gonna be stuff that comes up and that’s like a little bit of a headache, but I mean, you know, if the juice is worth a squeeze, I’m willing to go that route. and I’ve I’ve kind of started
going down that path a bit in terms of like I’m I’m precepting Psych NP students. So like they’re with me for like, you know, a couple days a week just observing everything, right? So these are people who like they don’t have any habits. They can learn my way of doing things. And you know, like those are the kind of people rather than just sort of taking a look at someone’s resume, someone I don’t know and
And hiring that person. Maybe I’m a little bit of a control freak, I don’t know. But yeah, I mean that that totally makes sense and something I do intend on doing. And what’s funny enough is some of the people I went to school with getting my associate’s degree, they’ve gone on and they’re like F NPs and and now they’re like going for their psych NPs because
You know, they want to move in that direction. And so, like one of my buddies, I’m gonna be precepting him when it it’s his rotation. So that’s a potential person I would hire. and then another friend of mine, Laura, same deal. She’s doing the same thing. I offered the same thing to precept her. These are the people I would like to ’cause like, you know, you know, my practice is my baby. Like I wanna make sure I have good people that I can trust.
Joe (13:04.481)
I don’t have to manage. You know what I mean?
J (13:08.088)
Yeah yeah. So getting up the control is probably one of the biggest things that prevents any business owner from taking their business to the next level. Okay. That’s something you just gotta get over, man. Like you just you gotta get over that. You have to. There’s no way you’re gonna grow a business that works for you without giving that you have to give that up. Because if you don’t
Joe (13:16.712)
Okay.
Yeah.
Joe (13:27.208)
Yeah.
J (13:31.618)
The business will never work for you. You’ll always be a hundred percent tied to it. You’ll be a control freak. And honestly, you’ll make your employees’ lives probably kind of miserable, you know? So yeah. So you gotta kinda you kinda you gotta let go of that responsibility and learn how to trust other people. Which I hate to say this. Some people are gonna do fantastic and some people are gonna fuck you over. That’s just that’s part of it. I’ve been fucked over alm almost every business I’ve ever had, someone has fucked me over.
Joe (13:40.403)
Right now.
Joe (14:01.503)
Yeah.
J (14:01.954)
But I also has some great people that work with me, that work for me, you know. So that’s just something that’s just it’s part of the game, right? I mean, if this was an easy thing, everyone would have to scale a million dollar business, you know? So
Joe (14:12.787)
Four scale.
J (14:14.134)
Yeah, so you have to be willing to deal with the headaches. Now, you know, the management component of it, man, managing some providers is really not that hard. You’d be surprised for the most part, man. They kind of just do their thing, you know. You have to manage them from a schedule perspective, you know, hey, what hours you want to give me this week so I can schedule patients on you? You know, okay, you’re gonna go on vacation for a week, fine. You know, it’s just little things like that, man. It’s not really that big of a deal, you know.
Joe (14:24.895)
Okay.
J (14:40.584)
you can have a virtual assistant that can do that shit for you, you know? so so yeah, I wouldn’t I w you know, I just I think there’s a lot of limiting beliefs there. I’d say you can just pretty much scrap most of them. I think the big thing here is
Finding someone you can trust, right? And someone that you can mold into what you want. So you have these psych NP students. I know another Psych NP, I won’t say what his name is, but this other psych NP, what he does is he brings these psych students into his practice to precept, and he s has them see almost all of his patients for him. And then he just sends off on the charts and signs the prescription. So like the psych NP students are giving him free labor. And he
Joe (15:21.875)
Baptist by fire. Yeah.
J (15:24.032)
Y yeah, like it’s it’s a b it’s it’s a genius model. He has free labor, right, while he’s teaching people and stuff, you know. But so if you get a psych NP student that comes in, you know, th th the issue is when they get out, they’re gonna you know, they’re gonna expect a full time job and that’s something that you probably won’t be able to do quite yet. But you should be able to at least give some one of these people at least ten hours a week. Now it’s gonna be a hit to your income. Like
Joe (15:27.687)
Yeah, yeah.
J (15:53.164)
y you you have to you shot accept that fact, okay? Your income will drop a little bit, all right? It will for a little while and then it’ll and then it’ll rebound and be even more. Okay. So there’s a little bit of a dip and then it’ll go back up, okay? So if you’re generating two hundred fifty thousand dollars a year, you know, your margin, I don’t know, your margin on this is probably what, ninety percent? Ninety-five percent
Joe (16:16.531)
Yeah, there’s not a lot of overhead.
J (16:18.568)
Yeah, right. So you have a huge margin here. So when you hire another psych NP to start seeing patients for you, cut it by twenty-five percent. That’s about what’s gonna have to pay them. It’s about twenty-five, twenty-five to forty percent in that range, depending on how generous you wanna be. Okay, so so it’ll be cut in half. So let’s just say as an example, let’s say you go more like the forty percent route, okay. You give them forty percent of collections, right? You give them forty percent, the other ten or twenty percent covers expenses, and the other forty percent of its profit.
So basically you’re getting 50% essentially, right, for free for not doing anything. So you as the business owner now collects 50% versus the 100% when it’s required for you to see the patient, right? So when someone else sees a patient, you collect 50 versus the 100. Okay. You can see how that can scale very quickly, right? Like you bring two NPs in, and let’s just let’s just say as an example, a year from now, two years from now, you have two MPs working for you.
And they’re seeing patients on a full time basis, you have now you now are making two hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year for not doing anything. They’ve basically replaced your salary. So you make two hundred fifty thousand dollars a year for doing nothing. And then you continue to see your own patients over here. If you still want to work because you like doing what you do, you’re making another two hundred, two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. So, I mean, you’re making almost half a million dollars a year at that point, right? So
Joe (17:32.735)
Yeah.
J (17:41.418)
So yeah, you can see how this can scale. So I mean you can bring in high-ticket concierge, but still requires your time. So I feel like that you should test the waters with it. Okay. Not asking you to hire someone part part-time or even full time, you part a full-time or even part-time right now. Test the waters. Bring in someone just to see patients for you for five hours a week. Be like, listen, I need someone to come in PRN. You tell me what your schedule is. I will schedule patients based on your schedule. Okay.
Joe (18:10.483)
Mm-hmm.
J (18:10.774)
I will pay you 40%. It’s great money. You’ll average about a hundred bucks an hour, give or take or whatever. You you figure out that math. You average about a hundred bucks an hour. I need five hours a week. It’s easy money for you. I just need this is what I need, just basic medication management stuff. I’ve sta I have these established patients, they just need refills and stuff. You know what I mean? Offload the easy shit to them, right? I say try it and see the power of leveraging the work of other people in your business.
Joe (18:28.339)
Sure. Yeah.
J (18:36.928)
actually experience that because once you experience that, what happens is you’ll see that and you’ll be like, damn, I’m gonna really go in on this. And then you end up becoming like myself and other and you know other entrepreneurs five years from down the road you become a lazy fuck. So yeah. So anyway though, but yeah, but but that’s
That’s just how it goes though. You take all those risks so you become you know, so you can become lazy later on, right? So, but anyways, I say just give it a try, man, see how that goes, ’cause you might be able to like really scale that very quickly. I don’t know what the demand is in your area. I don’t know how long of a wait people are, you know, just to to establish care with you, that sort of a thing. So, so yeah.
Joe (19:19.903)
Mm-hmm. Okay. actually another thing that I would need to do, I think, is
I don’t know if I told you this before, but I I currently use Headway for all my billing stuff. So I I know that’s not the ideal for me. It makes it super easy because like they take care of checking client benefits, collecting co-pays, all that stuff that I don’t want to deal with. So I, you know, I think I’d have to go through the process of like getting rid of them, hiring a billing company, outsourcing a billing company.
to like do all that stuff. And I’ve had like a couple billers in the past with like not the greatest experience. which is surprising ’cause like they’re working off of they’re getting paid off of what they’re collecting. So it’s a matter of like finding like a quality billing company and stuff like that too.
J (20:17.314)
Yeah, right. I mean, yeah, you would think these people would care. That’s how they get paid, but to them Yeah, yeah. Problem with a medical billing company is is that you know, they make five percent or whatever, right? Five percent, give or take. And to them dealing with a one hour denial or whatever is not worth the five percent to them. You know, it’s for a two hundred dollar bill, they make ten bucks off that. They don’t they
Joe (20:20.925)
Yeah, that’s why we’re interested in the cash thing, you know, the concierge type thing.
Joe (20:33.876)
Yeah.
J (20:45.066)
it’s not worth their time so they let it go. Right? That’s the problem with billers. Okay. They just want the easy, low hanging shit. That’s the easy five percent. But then when it comes to denials and stuff like that, they are not gonna spend their time for ten dollars. They’re just not going to. Fucks you over, you know, you just $190 is down the drain now. To them they don’t care. Right? Now headway, on the other hand, they do care about that stuff, right? ‘Cause I mean they’re you they’re they’re they’re pinching every piece of margin at you know all the margin they can out of this thing. So
Joe (20:47.465)
Yeah.
Joe (21:02.303)
Yeah.
J (21:13.868)
With Headway, and you probably heard this on you know another podcast before, but like the issue with Headway is that they technically own those patients. So look at your contract, okay? I don’t know if they’ve changed things or not, but take a look at your contract and see. See if they actually own those patients or not, because they’re the ones providing the patients to you and everything, right?
Joe (21:33.98)
No, a lot of these patients come to me. I d I I don’t do any marketing other than like I have my own website and I have a page on psycholytoday.com.
Other than that, it’s word of mouth. I don’t I actually have my settings on Headway that I’m not accepting new patients because there was an issue with like syncing up my calendar, whatever. We don’t need to get into that. But I I do not get referrals from Head Headway. I do get referrals from like Blue Cross Blue Shield, which I’m directly credentialed with. and you know, stuff like that. Word of mouth mostly.
J (22:02.572)
Okay.
J (22:12.47)
Okay, so then if right, so then those patients should be yours. Just make sure you verify. Yeah, because I think with Headway, it’s the patients that they send you, that they give you. That’s that’s their patients. But if these patients are yours, you’re just using them for billing. I don’t know, I don’t know how that complicates it. So you might want to just take look at those details in the contract and stuff. Just get the contract, throw it into Gemini or Claude or whatever, and tell them tell the circumstances of what you’re thinking about doing and make sure that this is something you can do. Okay. Now, the problem with Headway is that if they do provide you the patients, which a lot of practices as
Joe (22:28.479)
Okay.
Joe (22:37.735)
Yeah.
J (22:42.434)
they they rely on headway to send them patients and do the billing and do everything, right? In that circumstance, they own the patients. So if you ever decided that you wanted to sell this practice later on, it might make it difficult because, you know, you technically don’t own those patients. So it could it
Joe (23:00.188)
I I see what you’re saying, but like the way I do it when I set it up is like I input all of my
patients information into the Headway platform because these are folks that like I have my own EMR. I don’t put anything into Headway except for the claim. All my note documentation stuff is in my own EMR and that’s like one thing that Headway has you attest to that, you know, if an insurance company does an audit, you are responsible for providing documentation within three business days, or we’ll take you off our platform. And you have to attest to that each time.
So that’s how I do that and I I know the rules of the game.
J (23:42.008)
Okay. So then yeah, so then you’re just using them for billing, man, so it shouldn’t be a problem, right? How much how how how much are they taking? What’s the what’s their cut?
Joe (23:46.195)
That’s it. Yeah.
You know, I don’t know. And what’s funny is I I I won’t say the exact numbers because I’m not supposed to, but like my rate that I would get with insurance company X directly that I’m credentialed with is a few bucks less than the rate that Hedwig gives me with that same insurance company for the same billing codes. But that few bucks times X amount of patients in a week times a year.
Adds up to a lot.
J (24:21.688)
Well, yeah, I mean if it’s a thousand claims you submit and it’s five bucks, it’s five extra thousand dollars in your po I mean, yeah. So Yeah, okay, well, listen, man, I mean if if you’re happy with headway right now, okay, you can scale a business with them for sure. All right. If they’re just doing the billing for you and they don’t actually own your patience. You know, in my opinion, dude, like why
Joe (24:26.895)
Yeah.
J (24:44.938)
Why why try to fix something that’s not broke at all? You’re making good money. They’re handling all that bullshit for you. Like I would just if it was my business, I think I would just stay with them just because it makes it so easy. Right. And then just hire another NP and
Joe (24:55.753)
I kinda want to, yeah. Yeah.
J (25:02.466)
throw into the Hedway, whatever you gotta do to get them in there so they can start seeing patients. And just keep and keep using them. If you wanna sell this business ten years from now or something and if Headway doesn’t own your patients, it really shouldn’t be an issue whatsoever. They’re just doing the medical billing for you, you know.
Joe (25:06.397)
Yep.
Joe (25:15.507)
Yeah. Yeah. And Hedweig did all my credentialing too. So I credentialed directly with one insurance company. They credentialed me with an enti an entire panel of all the other major players, which opened me up to, you know, another like market. So
J (25:32.93)
Yeah, yeah. So I would just I would just stick with them then. I wouldn’t worry about it. just like I said again, just make sure that two things you’re gonna wanna make sure is that you own the patience, and it sounds like you do, you’re just using for billing. Make sure you own the patience and make sure that if you do wanna sell this thing later down the row that the contract
Joe (25:46.279)
Is it?
J (25:53.036)
you know, should carry over with the new owner. In theory, I mean that shouldn’t be a problem. They would just sign a new contract with them or whatever, so that shouldn’t be an issue. but but yeah, those are gonna be the two things you wanna worry about if you ever decide to sell this and you’re using headway. But if you don’t want to sell it, then you know it’s not anything you wanna need to worry about whatsoever. But if you do wanna sell it later down the road, you know, ten years from now, you’re going to have to hire other people. No one’s gonna buy your business if it’s one hundred percent reliant on you. Nobody will, okay?
Joe (26:11.657)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Joe (26:22.111)
Sure. Yeah.
J (26:22.988)
Yeah. So no one will buy your business if it’s thirty percent relying on you, okay? You need to get down to twenty percent. You need to get down to you are seeing twenty percent of the patients. So you know, you
Joe (26:34.419)
Yeah. I know I’d definitely need to get like a a virtual medical receptionist ’cause, you know, like I can do without that headache of like you know that stuff.
J (26:43.308)
Yeah. Yeah, that’s that’s an easy low hanging fruit kind of a thing. Just hire a VA and call it a day and have them do all of that stuff for you. You can hire a VA that can do a lot of just the basic management stuff for you. So if you hire an NP to do work for you, this person can manage, schedule the providers, they can do all of that stuff for you. You don’t have to worry about it, right? So
so yeah, anyways, I put some thought into those two things, if you want to if you want to scale this thing. You’re gonna have just accept getting the responsibility over to some other people. And if you pay them well
You don’t gotta worry about fucking you over. You know. If you hire an MP, then you know, they sign non solicitation clause, non compete clauses. Even though this stuff might not be enforceable, it scares them. So, you know, you put golden handcuffs on so they don’t leave. You know, they’re not gonna find a better deal anywhere else. If they wanna start their own practice, then start your own practice. Good luck, but you can’t take the patience. You just can’t.
Joe (27:29.094)
Right.
Joe (27:35.817)
Yeah.
Joe (27:41.086)
That group practice that I started working for as an NP, my split at the time was sixty-five thirty-five. And you know, I I I thought I was justified in asking for a raise since I’m not using the R office space and you know, whatever else. and, you know, again, glad I got the answer no, because that’s what brought me to where I am today. But like, yeah, I think that would be a fair
They’re, you know, split for for NPs, even like a sixty forty to start out with, like if they’re new, whatever. yeah, yeah. Excuse me, sixty-five, thirty-five if they’re new, sixty forty if if they’re more experienced, something like that. Yeah.
J (28:15.512)
They get forty. Right, yeah.
J (28:25.9)
Yeah, like and the thing is too, man, like you know, start off at forty percent, thirty five percent, whatever, thirty five, forty percent of collections. And if you get someone, man, that’s good, you don’t have to ever worry about or think about They’ve been you with you for a year, they go they go full time, they have five hundred patients or whatever.
Joe (28:45.791)
Yeah.
J (28:45.836)
You know, to keep go up to fifty if you got to. You’re still making money, you know. So don’t penny pinch when you like when you got someone who’s good, it’s not worth it’s not worth the fight the hassle. They want a little bit of a raise, give them a little bit of raise, you know? Yeah. Up to a point. You know, once you get to the point be like, I can’t give you any more money. I just I can’t at this point. Like I’m sorry, you know. Get a bonus here or there or whatever, you know, but
Joe (28:55.101)
Right. Right.
Joe (29:01.715)
Yeah, I agree.
Joe (29:09.758)
Yeah. Yeah.
J (29:14.05)
Okay, so do you have any other questions about the scaling component of this stuff? The like that?
Joe (29:18.889)
Mm, I don’t think so.
J (29:20.814)
Okay. So let’s talk about the high ticket concierge things. We were talking about two directions you can take, and that one took damn twenty-five minutes. So this yeah, this is gonna be a little bit of a longer episode. All right, so the high ticket concierge things. So tell me what you are thinking about what you want this to be. Like what’s your goal here? What like what’s your vision?
Joe (29:24.063)
Yeah.
Joe (29:41.042)
yeah, so I mean, again, it’s like providing the same level of service that I’m already providing to my current patients, just that, you know, the the like I said, these people like have my cell phone number. They they know that they can get directly in touch with me. and then, you know, again, I’m not I’m not looking to like obviously do anything out of my scope of practice or anything like that, that but they would just get that like, you know, for me.
W when I reach out to my PCP, shoot a message on my chart or whatever, sometimes it takes me like a a week to get a response or something like that. No, these people are getting a response within twenty four hours. And I I I think that’s worth it to some individuals, you know? that.
J (30:28.632)
Right, right. Okay. Okay, so just a very personalized thing. So now the level of personalization and the level of the concierge kind of component of this is gonna depend on what you’re charging. Okay. So you know, if you charge two hundred fifty dollars a month or whatever, then it’s gonna be a lot lower value than compared to a thousand, right? So
So you gotta think about what what do you wanna charge for this. I mean, for someone who’s just wanting kind of their ADHD managed and that’s kind of it, and they don’t really have a lot of questions for you and stuff. I mean, I think a thousand dollars is gonna be a pretty hard a pretty hard ask, okay. So, like myself as an example, if I was to go to you, you know, I wouldn’t bother you.
Joe (31:16.553)
Yeah.
J (31:25.176)
Very, very I’d like, Hey Joe, I a refill. Hey, this stuff is making me feel weird. You know, like just something like it would just be you wouldn’t hear much from me, right? Like as long as my refills were always there, you wouldn’t hear much from me. So like for me, I wouldn’t pay a thousand dollars for something like that. I’d pay two hundred
Joe (31:28.511)
Yeah.
Joe (31:34.899)
Yeah, yeah.
J (31:45.154)
you know, that’d be no problem whatsoever, right? I pay two hundred dollars a month. Don’t gotta worry about it. I can talk to you, kinda make appointment and see you same week kind of a thing. My refills are always there. I don’t have to sit there and chase you down for, you know, my refill on my, you know, Adderall or whatever. Like, that would be nice. I’d pay two hundred dollars a month for that. So for a thousand dollars a month though, you’re gonna have to really think about how can you really beef that up. So
What are things that you can add to it, you know? I mean, obviously you don’t want basket cases who are gonna suck up your time, who just happen to have money, right? That’s the last thing you want. You’ll end up finding out like a thousand dollars a month is not worth this headache. It’s just not, you know what I mean?
Joe (32:21.959)
Right.
Joe (32:28.564)
Yeah.
J (32:29.51)
You don’t want people like that. You kinda wanna find someone in the middle, you know what I mean? so for the thousand dollars a month, I think that you would really need to beef this thing up and put some integrative stuff into it. Something that you can actually give them, you know, like someone wants th they they w they wanna hold something, they want something, you know. There’s the service, sure, but at the end of the day I feel like they’re gonna need a little bit more of something. So like
from a mental health standpoint, can you do some more integrative things for them, some supplementation? You actually give them the supplements, you ship it to them. Can you do some, you know, HRT kind of stuff or thyroid or whatever for their mental health. You know what I mean? You’re gonna have to do some things like that, I feel like, if you wanna really get that number up, you know. So
Joe (33:17.981)
Yeah, that’s a good idea. And and and that’s very pertinent because you know, a lot of times I I get guys in their late thirties, forties, fifties who are starting to experience some of those like hormone changes, side effects stuff or effects that happened as a result of that. so yeah, that that’s that’s a good idea.
J (33:41.538)
Yeah, yeah, I think that’s what you’re I think think that’s what you want to focus on, you know. Like, you know, I’ve I’ve toyed with the idea of trying like some you know, some thyroid stuff to see if it helps a little bit with my, you know, mental health. I mean, I’m not depressed or really anything, but it’d be nice to be a little bit more focused and a little bit more, you know, up, I suppose. And so I thought about maybe trying some thyroid or whatever, you know.
low dose sort of a thing, but like, you know, I would pay a little bit more if you were to do manage that for me as well, give me some supplements as well, some lithium oritate and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever, right? So like I think that’s what you’re gonna have to try to think of. Now another thing you can do too is there’s high-ticket executive physical kind of stuff, okay? You can think about offering those services in your practice, alright?
I don’t think it’s against your scope to order some of these tests because they have anxiety surrounding their health and I’m ordering these tests to alleviate their hypochondria, right? So like like a full body MRI, cardiac CTAs, like
Joe (34:48.232)
It can cut.
J (34:57.79)
Executive level care. You know what I mean? Like someone pays you ten thousand dollars for an executive physical, okay? And you order the test for them to complete the executive physical. Super comprehensive blood work, full body MRI, cardiac CTA, you know, venous, arterial ultrasounds. Like essentially what you’re doing is you’re basically just ruling out anything that they might have, right? Clean bill of health, right?
Joe (35:21.289)
Yeah.
J (35:24.322)
You could think about something like that to add on to your concierge or high ticket kind of a thing as well. Okay. You could do comprehensive psycho you know, biometrics, mental health marker testing, whatever that you’ve just you have to add value to it. It can’t just be based off of this is the service, you can text me anytime that you need anything. Like it’s gonna need to be more than that if you want to charge more. Okay. Yeah. If you want basic
Joe (35:50.173)
Okay. Yeah.
J (35:54.658)
Like what you’re kinda talking about, twenty-four hour service, you text anytime, I’ll take a respond within a couple hours, sort of a thing. Like, you know, you can text me for anything that you need. You always get refills. We can make an appointment whenever you want. If you wanna keep it just at that level, okay, I think asking for more than two hundred and fifty bucks a month might be a stretch. Okay. You wanna go to more than the the next level of a thousand, the real high ticket stuff.
Joe (36:13.161)
Okay.
J (36:20.056)
then you’re gonna need to be thinking about the integrative stuff, stuff that you can order you have to order through compounding pharmacies, you know, like more of that kind of level of care. And then very comprehensive testing as well. You know, and I don’t know what some of that testing looks like from a mental health standpoint, brain MRI, blah blah blah blah blah, I don’t you know, whatever it is that you can integrate into this to make it, you know, to to beef it up basically, to justify the higher price.
Joe (36:48.381)
Yeah, yeah. I guess my only apprehension with that would be like I I i you know, I was taught that like if you’re gonna order a test you need to know
what to do when you get the results of that if there’s something abnormal. And you know, I I’ve got like a few years of experience working in emergency departments and like some other bedside experience at at the psych hospital I worked at and and Bridgewater State Hospital. But you know I guess I’m a little out of touch with more like the medical skills because I’ve been I’ve been working as a psych NP now for like a bit longer.
So I have to like I don’t know, either sharpen up or get certified in some things to be ignored.
J (37:34.094)
Yeah, I don’t think there’s I don’t think there’s a certification for this sort of a thing. I mean you can buy a book like you can buy Peter Atias The Science the Art and Science of Longevity or something. Like you can buy like that book.
Joe (37:37.63)
Yeah.
Joe (37:44.879)
yeah, okay.
J (37:46.582)
talks a lot about this kind of executive level care sort of a thing. You can look up like Brian Johnson, the guy that’s trying to live forever, that kind of guy that looks like he’s real pale, looks like a vampire kind of guy, like that guy. Like you can just watch his channel and just kinda c copy his protocols basically, right? But the thing is is that if you prof if you provide this care, yes, right? You ordered it, you’re responsible. Now, this is the thing about executive health. You know, these real high-ticket concierge kind of services.
Joe (37:50.429)
Yeah, like
Joe (37:58.048)
yeah.
J (38:16.502)
Is that you don’t you’re not gonna be responsible for it when they sign a consent and you’re stating, I am just doing this from a health prevention standpoint. Whatever comes up positive, it’s your responsibility, if all for your primary care doctor, to take the next step. Okay, have something like that in your consent form. Or
Joe (38:28.159)
Mm-hmm.
Joe (38:33.523)
Gotcha.
J (38:38.062)
You know, if you’re trying to justify a thousand dollars a month or a ten thousand dollar price tag for this executive level physical, at the end of the day, dude, this isn’t rocket science. If the CTA comes back with an eighty percent occlusion of the left, you know, coronary artery or whatever, I mean, what you gonna do? You send him to a cardiologist. Like, this isn’t rocket science. Like, you know, some mass is found on their pancreas, you know, potential, you know, could be cancerous or whatever. What are you gonna do? Send them to a gastro neurologist or whatever. You know, it’s just it’s not it’s not rocket.
Joe (38:56.669)
Yeah.
J (39:08.016)
Just refer them out. You’re not, you know what I mean? Like you don’t have to like you’re you’re gonna one that treats it. You don’t you don’t do that, right? So yeah, like you don’t have to like you I mean you don’t have to follow up with more advanced testing if they’re if there’s if there’s a lesion on the pancreas as an example
Joe (39:08.863)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Joe (39:14.207)
I’m not looking at it for school.
J (39:27.83)
You know, i the radiology report will say recommend blank blank test, right? Recommend C T, you know, C T with contrast of the pancreas, you know, what like it’ll it’ll recommend what the next test is. It’s up to you if you wanna order that or not.
Or just tell them to score their primary care doctor. Okay. So that’s gonna be up to you. Me personally, I don’t mind ordering the next test just to s you know, I c I I don’t mind doing that. But I’m I’m medical, you know, so you know, I feel more comfortable with it. But you know, you do have AI. I mean you know, AI’s the ultimate decis you know, the ultimate D supervisor professor, you know. So
Joe (39:55.891)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Joe (40:04.029)
Yeah.
Joe (40:10.035)
That’s been super helpful. Yeah.
J (40:12.418)
Yeah. So I don’t know if s those are things to consider with the high ticket thing. I mean, do you have any questions, thoughts?
Joe (40:19.143)
no, I think that’s a great idea. It’s something I’ve not I I’ve considered doing something like that. But yeah, you’ve give me something to think about there.
J (40:27.394)
Yeah, yeah. So think about it, man. I’d say that the low hanging fruit, the two hundred dollar a month kind of a thing, two fifty a month, whatever you feel like is justifiable, that’s super low hanging fruit. You add a page to your website, you start offering it to new patients, etcetera. Hey, by the way, we do have this program over here. Throw it out there. It’ll be a trickle of people enrolling into it and does it it it’s
Joe (40:40.639)
Yeah.
J (40:54.114)
really no no effort on your part other than putting a page up and offering it to people.
Joe (40:57.971)
Yeah. So would this be something that you would recommend doing as like a a a DBA under my current thing or j just like you said, just another page on my current website?
J (41:10.048)
No, I think I would do I think I would try to make it a separate business in a way. Just DBA. Same bank account, EMR, same everything, right? It’s just it just looks like from the outside it’s a different business, but it’s in reality it’s the exact same thing, right? The only thing that different would be I’d maybe have a different phone number for it, you know? So
Joe (41:14.931)
Yeah. Yeah.
Joe (41:23.219)
Yeah.
Joe (41:29.949)
Yeah, yeah.
J (41:30.722)
Get a phone app and make sure it’s just a different number. So that way if people are calling that number, you know. Okay, answer it. Blank diamond psych care, whatever, you know, whatever you’re gonna call it. So yeah. So I I think that’s what I would do. So you set up a different you separate Google business listing, website, everything. If you wanna, you know, if you want to go that route, that’s what I would do. If you are going to go the real high ticket route, the real high dollar kind of a thing, maybe doing these more this this this comprehensive testing and stuff, for sure.
Joe (41:40.735)
Very well.
J (42:00.666)
will want to do that DBA. Absolutely. So but I think I would just do it anyways. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So just give it a try, see what happens, man. I mean what’s what’s the worst gonna happen? You wasted some time making a website, like
Joe (42:05.983)
Cool. Possible. Thank you.
Joe (42:12.948)
Yeah.
Joe (42:16.605)
Yeah, that was that was easy enough to do.
J (42:19.79)
With AI, man, you can get one spun up in fifteen minutes, I mean, you know? So okay, so then any other questions about the high ticket stuff?
Joe (42:32.831)
Probably, but like that’s enough I think f for me to think about for now.
J (42:38.06)
Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I mean you got my email. You can email me if you have another follow up question or we can do another follow up episode if you want. so, integrating some new services into your practice. So before you hopped on the call you kinda mentioned the was it the TMS or whatever?
Joe (42:54.429)
Yeah, that’s another thing that I was kinda thinking about. I’ve got a colleague of mine, she’s actually my friend Hannah, who she’s the one who turned me onto your podcast, which by the way, thank you, was an integral component in me starting up my business. I mean, the advice I got from you was so helpful and
going to the billionaires event in St. Petersburg like a year and a half ago. That was great too. I got a lot of stuff out of that. One of the things is if you look at my website, I have my dogs on there now because he’s the chief comfort officer. So he’s also a tax write-off. All his vet expenses are a tax write-off. And it’s legit. So thank you for that. but yeah, so TMS
J (43:35.639)
Hey.
Joe (43:42.066)
I I I went to a a summit by a company that manufactures TMS equipment, transcranial magnetic stimulation. And there there seems to be a whole lot of potential for that. it’s already got some FDA approvals for like depression and some other things, but they’re talking about like all you know going for more FDA approvals for all kinds of stuff, like tinnitus.
possibly like some addiction treatment. So you know, the medications we’ve got, they’re they’re they’re great. They’re the best tools we have. And some like psychedelic stuff is in the pipeline, which is awesome because there’s so much evidence supporting that. But you know these things all come with side effects, right? TMS, not so much. Like you don’t have like sexual dysfunction as a result of TMS.
that you have with lots of SSRI medications, you know, i it’s a possibility, right? So yeah, that that might be a an avenue that I pursue at some point too. But that’s a big thing too, because like you buy the chair and that’s expensive and it’s you know, there’s a lot more that comes with that too, right?
Joe (45:07.039)
You know, I don’t know. th but it’s a big number. it’s like it’s over a hundred grand. and then there’s like
the summit I attended, there’s like a software subscription that they offer as well, which is a great thing. Like you wanna have that because that’s what’s feeding all the data to get like these other FDA approvals and stuff. so it it’s an it’s an investment for sure.
J (45:38.04)
So just quick tip about buying a very expensive medical device, okay? This is gonna what this is gonna be totally applicable to you, okay? I’ve talked to I couldn’t tell you how many dozens of MPs who just got totally screwed by buying
this this this is mostly gonna be aesthetics kind of machine, you know, like, you know, medical devices. So but this is gonna be applicable to you too ’cause it’s the same it’s the same concept. So they just get screwed. They buy it new, and then they finance it or whatever, okay. come to find out that when, you know, a year later they say, Hey, I’m a I’m I
This isn’t paying for itself. No one’s interested in this laser whatever device, you know. this weight loss machine. No one’s interested in it. And they go around, they try to sell it then, just to try to at least recoup something from it. And they go to the market to try to sell it and they find that there’s other people trying to sell theirs too, and it’s just like they’re selling it for half the price they bought a brand new a year ago. So these things are like cars.
Joe (46:44.989)
Yeah.
J (46:45.182)
Soon as you drive it off the lot, man, 25% gone. Okay. So if you’re gonna go this TMS route, do not buy a new one. Okay.
Look around. You can find one used. I guarantee you can. Okay? There’s some mental health clinic that bought one and they’re closing down and they need to get rid of this thing. Okay? Could be a year old. Could be a good brand. Alright? Thing is barely used. Okay. So do your diligence with it. Do not, do not get suckered in.
by some salesman who’s trying to sell you on it. That salesman doesn’t give two shits about your long term well being. He doesn’t care. He wants his commission and he’s gonna go about his life. Okay? So do not fall prey to these sharks. These people are sharks. Okay. So don’t don’t don’t fall prey for
Joe (47:31.549)
Yeah.
J (47:40.492)
you know, just thank you very much. I appreciate you showing it to me. Let me think about it. well, but no no no. Get the hell out of my office. I told you, I’ll think about it. Right. So don’t get suckered in. but f try to find one used. That’s with anyone listening to this. If you’re if you were if you’re looking for a medical device, go look for one used. It’s fifty percent of the price. It is crazy. All right.
Just c consider that. Now if you’re gonna do that, I think that the TMS thing fits in very, very well with this cash-based concierge kind of thing that you’re wanting to do. I think it would be I think it’d be very, very complimentary to it. And I think it fits. I think it makes sense if you wanna do that. So I think it’d be a great service to add on to it, ’cause it’s a cash based thing anyways. So you have a concierge package that includes four TMS treatments a month or whatever, you know, however that you know, however that works.
plus, you know, red carpet, you can text me whatever you want, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever, right? So I think that I think that’s the way you’re probably gonna wanna go with that if you if you want to go with that. I think it’d be good value add to a concierge high ticket thing, but just just be careful. I’ve seen people literally have to declare bankruptcy because they financed a device for a hundred and fifty thousand dollars and it just does not pay for itself and the business isn’t doing well.
And they declare bankruptcy. So I’ve seen Yeah.
Joe (49:02.377)
Yeah. That’s a bummer. I don’t want that. Yeah, that that’s that’s a good idea. currently working from home, I I love that, you know, me and my dog Harley, but depending upon like the DEA what they rule, I might have to eventually like get an office space for the controlled substance folks. So if that happens, TMS starts to make more sense for me at that point, right? So yeah.
J (49:29.868)
Yeah. Yeah, that’s the thing, right? We don’t know what the hell’s gonna happen in December with the D E A. We have no clue. No idea. You know, they could I
Joe (49:35.305)
Yeah. Right. Keep picking the camp road.
J (49:41.152)
Yeah, it’s it’s frustrating to say the least. I think I I highly doubt they’re gonna go back to the Ryan Height shit from two thousand
Joe (49:49.768)
It doesn’t make sense. Why would you wanna add another barrier to care for mental health? I mean, that’s the total opposite of like w you know, that doesn’t make any sense. But
J (49:58.83)
Correct, it makes no sense. And this has become the standard of care for the last six years. For them to backpedal on it, it would cause a uproar. ‘Cause I mean they they tried to do that back in like what was it, twenty two or twenty three, and then like there was this online forum, please give us your comments and it was like hundred thousand people are like, What are you doing? This is fine, it’s
Joe (50:03.816)
Right.
Joe (50:12.35)
Yes.
Joe (50:18.323)
People look at the convenience of telehealth. You know, take them more time to find a parking spot, come into the office for their med management follow up appointment than to just have you know, a a quick twenty five minute of telehealth appointment, you know.
J (50:21.646)
Correct, right.
J (50:36.354)
Right. Right. Right. Right. So I wouldn’t worry too much about that. You’ll probably be able to keep keep doing what you’re doing, okay? So, but I feel like that if you do want to scale this to the next level though, having a physical office probably isn’t gonna be a bad idea if you really wanna take this to the next level.
Joe (50:52.531)
Yeah. I wouldn’t hate it. Like I think a hybrid is the ideal actually. But yeah, so
J (50:56.098)
Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Hybrid is definitely the way to go. And so if you go get an office, man, I mean, you’re making enough money to justify it, okay? So if you wanted to do it, you could do it. Something simple. Five hundred square feet. I wouldn’t have more than that. That’s it, you know.
Joe (51:09.651)
Yep.
Joe (51:13.117)
I started to look into it and and to my surprise it’s way cheaper than I thought it was gonna be to get some office space. So yeah. Yeah, that’s that’s probably in the future.
J (51:23.18)
Yeah, yeah, I’d say it’s pretty close, yeah. cool. Any other questions? Anything else you want to talk about?
Joe (51:29.799)
This has been super helpful. Thank you so much for having me on. I really appreciate it.
J (51:35.373)
you’re welcome. Alright, well I like to end the episode with you asking me a question. You have personal curiosity or question for me?
Joe (51:39.837)
Yeah, I’ve I’ve heard a lot of people ask you some questions and that you know, I know that you love hunting and fishing and family life and all that. but I don’t know if I’ve ever heard anyone ask you this. So what made you decide to become a nurse?
J (51:55.286)
I don’t think anyone’s asked me that question in the three or four years of doing this. Yeah, that’s yeah, that’s a good one. honestly, man, it was I just needed a job. I mean, I hate to say that, but you know, I I I graduated with my bachelor’s in biology and chemistry. Okay.
Joe (51:57.128)
Joe (52:06.335)
Yeah.
Joe (52:15.419)
No.
J (52:17.198)
3.6, 3.7 GPA. I mean, I did well, you know. I I took the dental admissions test and studying for the MCAT. Never ended up taking the MCAT, but yeah, I took the dental admissions test. I scored pretty well. I never applied to dental school. and I just I got out from undergrad, so I graduated. I would have been, hell, how old would I have been? I would have been like twenty two.
two years old or something, right? I was still a punk ass kid. And so you know, partying and women and all that kind of stuff was my priority at 22, 23 years old. So you know, working out whatever. so I did not, you know, so I took like a year, year and a half, two years off, kind of right in that range after I graduated, working bullshit jobs, you know, like
Joe (52:57.855)
That’s
J (53:13.262)
attending and working at a hotel and just stuff like that. And I was like, Man, I’m
when you start when you’re you know when you’re working with people like that after you’re educated you just start really realizing how I mean I might sound like this might sound like a real asshole thing to say but like you really just start realizing how ignorant and dumb the general population is just
Joe (53:25.993)
Yeah.
Joe (53:35.815)
Okay.
J (53:38.178)
can’t stand working with these people anymore. I’m like, I’m beyond this. I just I hate it. I that’s just how I felt. I’m beyond this. I’m just beyond this, you know. So I was like, I need to do something. So I so I just started looking online, kinda in my area and
East Tennessee State University had an accelerated BSN program and my buddy that had graduated kind of with me, I was like, man, we gotta do something, dude. What the hell are we doing? Like we’re we’re we’re just messing around. We’re not doing anything with our degrees, you know? And so so anyway, so we like, yeah, this accelerated BSN takes a year and a half to do. I was like, okay, you get out, become an RN. I was like, I I don’t want to stay an RN. I want to become a nurse practitioner. I’m gonna go straight through become an NP.
Joe (54:18.355)
nice.
J (54:19.52)
Yeah. So did the accelerate BSN, graduated, had about six months off from the BSN to my MSN. But I worked full time as an RN throughout from when I graduated until I graduated MB School. I worked full time still. I went to school part time. So it took me three years to get my MSN. So but yeah, but anyways a long story short, I just I needed a job. I needed to just kind of break out of what I wanted, you know, break out of the situation I was in and accelerate BSN was a quick route to do it with the end goal of becoming
Joe (54:29.171)
Yeah, yeah.
Joe (54:32.787)
Yeah, same.
J (54:49.424)
A and B because it’s you know, I kinda always wanted to do something in medicine. You know, it’s I was money motivated, I hate to say that, but well shoot me.
Joe (54:59.315)
Yeah. So was the rest of the country.
J (55:02.732)
I I think a lot of people are, you know. Yeah.
Joe (55:05.119)
Yeah, yeah. And you know, it’s a obviously you made a great choice and money motivated but like huge bonus that you get to help people in the process of making a nice life for yourself and your family, so
J (55:18.85)
Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent, man. I I’ve always liked helping people. I just like I’m not a very good I’m not a very compassionate person. I’m just not. Like, I’m not I’m not the type of person that’ll sit there and hold your hand in the hospital bed. I’m just I’m just not. That’s why I always work like ER and stuff, treat and street, you know? I’m just not like that. I’m not I mean, I’m a caring person, but in a different way, you know what I mean? So like
elite MP and doing these things has allowed me to help people in the capacity that I like to help people. You know, I don’t necessarily like to help people in the healthcare sense. I’m just not I don’t I I I I don’t know, it’s it’s that that compassion component of it is something that I kinda just lack, you know, but I like helping people in like this fashion, you know. So I mean everyone has their gifts, right? So
Joe (55:59.912)
Yeah, I tell you, so
Joe (56:08.979)
Yeah. Well thank you, man. You’ve helped me out a lot. So like I told you, you’re my NP entrepreneur god. So profit for that.
J (56:15.502)
That was a pleasure, man. All right. Well, let’s do a follow-up once you kinda think about the whole you know, the whole high ticket thing.
Joe (56:23.018)
Cool. Okay. Thanks, Justin.
J (56:25.11)
I mean.
